Tangent editor D Truesdale’s true colours come shining through on the Holocaust ‘debate’ at the Asimov’s Forum Part 2

This is the second of an eleven part series at this blog. Continuing from Part 1…

Firstly when Dave Truesdale, editor at Tangent (a critical SF review magazine) outed himself as a Holocaust Revisionist, I couldn’t initially believe it, although it didn’t take long for me to realise the ugly facts here. Given that Truesdale himself had put up a thread at the Analog Discussion forum on James Hogan’s passing, paying a respectful tribute to him and expressing doubt that Hogan denied the Holocaust – prior to my mentioning it at Asimov’s – I shouldn’t have been as amazed as I was. The only reason I was surprised, was at the time I was not cognisant of Truesdale’s pertinent post at the Analog forum. Thread is entitled ‘James P Hogan Interview’ http://www.analogsf.com/aspnet_forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=1084  [likewise Analog Forum is shut down. Thread no longer accessible. Posted comment is pasted below. See Postscript Part B for a duplicate of Truesdale’s comment here]

Dave Truesdale wrote at the Analog Forum thread the following:

7/18/2010 10:07:45 PM

Anyway, despite some of his views (especially his being a holocaust denier, if true; a view I can’t really believe he believed), I thought he was a nice guy. Anybody who gets me drunk on fancy stuff like Bushmills Black Bush Irish Whiskey is A-OK in my book.”

In light of that, Truesdale’s public response to me at the Asimov’s Forum thread is not too surprising. I was just totally unaware of his glowing tribute to Hogan at the Analog Forum, at the time that I was posting on Hogan at the Asimov’s Forum.

So anyhow I responded to Truesdale’s post (relevant portion quoted in part in Part 1) at the Asimov’s Forum thread – yes omg I was actually offended – would you believe *sarc*. This post of mine would be deleted by Asimov’s Forum admin some time later. It was up for awhile. Now of course the whole thread is no longer accessible.

Post dated 7/25/2010 12:32:31 PM

Truesdale, you want to get your facts straight before you make a complete ass of yourself.

I actually wrote Holocaust Revisionist, not Denier, clearly. Hogan was a Holocaust Revisionist. Actually the terms Revisionist and Denier in this context are actually interchangeable but I will explain why that is further down. What are you blabbering on about with your straw man crap about the Russians??

On this very forum about two weeks before Hogan kicked the bucket, like a month ago, I wrote about Hogan’s Holocaust Revisionism on the thread entitled ‘graphic novels and comic books’.

Here is what I wrote, for your convenience, upon Thomas R’s remarks that Hogan had taken down the post at his website from years ago where he came out in support of DAVID IRVING’S VIEWS ON THE HOLOCAUST, NOT merely Irving’s free speech (I support Irving’s free speech rights – that was not the issue), but Irving’s Revisionist views on the Holocaust as historically accurate. This was some years ago during a kerfluffle relating to David Irving, the most notorious English language Holocaust Revisionist “historian” in the world.

here is the thread from which the quotes of mine below are taken, dated 27/6/2010
http://www.asimovs.com/aspnet_forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=3703&Page=1

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Actually I did make sure to save Hogan’s original comments that he made on his website on the whole David Irving affair at the time, so deleting all that didn’t help you much Hoggie.
So here I paste up part of Hogan’s original comments from his website on the Irving affair, since Hoggie has deleted it now.

James Hogan wrote:

This week sees the disgraceful sentencing in Austria of the British Historian David Irving for disagreeing with what those in authority require that we believe”

James Hogan again wrote:

The ritualized arrogance of the parrots that I read in the mainstream media makes me doubt if they have tried to learn anything about the subject before playing back their culturally indoctrinated opinions. Have any of them actually read any of the Revisionists’ works, studied their sources, or compared objectively and critically the Revisionists’ arguments with the officially dispensed story they’ve been told? If not, how do they presume to form any judgment that can be called informed before lecturing the world at large?

“I have. In fact it was Arthur Butz’s book (see Home Page from the link above) that first aroused my interest in the subject many years ago now. I got to know Mark Weber quite well during the time that I lived in California, as a result of my following up various further researches. And I find their case more scholarly, scientific, and convincing than what the history written by the victors says. So I suppose that expressing such skepticism makes me a guilty party too.”

There you have it! In Hogan’s own words, all accurate quotations.

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So unless Truesdale is going to call me a liar fabricating quotations – what is it about Hogan unambiguously endorsing the Holocaust Revisionism of among the most notorious well-known Holocaust Revisionists in the English language world, David Irving and Arthur Butz, as historically accurate and truthful, that is so difficult to understand Truesdale? Do your bloody homework before you trip over your own feet Truesdale. Truesdale – in the libel court case in the UK between Irving and Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin books, do you think Irving in the right and Lipstadt in the wrong? If not, then what are you blabbering on about Truesdale, since Hogan unambiguously endorses Irving’s Revisionist views of the Holocaust as historically accurate? Oh wait don’t answer that Dave, you didn’t bother to check up what all this Holocaust Revisionist talk revolving around Hogan was actually all about, that would have been too difficult I guess…

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Of course Hogan was, like his heroes Irving and Butz a Holocaust DENIER, never mind this Revisionist bugaboo; and I should have written that rather, called a spade a spade. Getting back on track…

Now at the time I wrote the above comment (let me repeat – later deleted from Asimov’s Forum by Asimov’s Forum admin), I had assumed that Truesdale was just obtuse and insensitive, not that he was sympathetic to Holocaust Revisionism as a legitimate and reasonable view to hold.

Frankly I think my post was more restrained than it could have been, I just called Truesdale an ass, bid deal. I could have called him worse than that. Also there is an error in that post of mine, Hogan never did delete those comments of his from his blog endorsing Holocaust DENIAL. I was mistaken on that front. The odious comments of Hogan I quote remained and remain accessible on his blog. Of course this has no bearing and is a distraction from the point at hand – the thrust of this blog post, yet I necessarily correct that mistake of mine.

Now if you checked out that Asimov’s Forum thread (until the Asimov’s Forum shut-down that is), that post of mine would not have been there, it was deleted a day or so later, although it was visible for a while. Why did Asimov’s Forum admin delete it? Does somebody want to ask Asimov’s admin? [well there is no longer an Asimov’s admin, since there is no longer an Asimov’s Forum. The question remains pertinent] How sinister and disgusting that Asimov’s Forum admin deleted my post. (I had decided to save these threads to my hard-drive as I posted because I had my suspicions already, and boy was my cynicism more than warranted, as was proven by Asimov’s admin deleting my posts in my verbal duels with people like Truesdale and others!) I in fact did ask Asimov’s admin long after this thread had died in a PM I sent (detailed in Part 5) why this post especially was deleted. I got no response.

So Truesdale’s subsequent response to me (as bad as is) is even worse than it appeared at the visible thread. (well when the thread was viewable until the forum shut-down) Truesdale’s reply to me still makes sense, even in light of the post of mine’s deletion, since my two posts dated 7/25/2010 12:41:16 PM and 7/25/2010 12:56:57 PM were still up and not deleted (until forum shut-down – now viewable in their entirety and in complete context in the forthcoming Postscript Part A) and only reinforce the points I made in my earlier and subsequently deleted post (quoted in full above). These two additional posts were not removed. Yet the point is that the post of mine, that I paste in full above emphatically proves the point that Hogan was a Holocaust Denier/Revisionist, and Truesdale had read that post of mine – before its deletion – along with the later two posts before replying again. His reply, digging in his heels and digging his grave, is off-the-charts obscene and crosses the line into the most rabid, fevered and beyond the pale form of eye-rolling anti-Semitic bigotry. And here it is (also see forthcoming Postscript Part A):

Dave Truesdale wrote at 7/25/2010 12:56:57 PM

I realize this is a highly sensitive issue, Lawrence, which is why I said I didn’t want to get into the politics of it (because I knew it might lead to posts like yours, which belong in the basement probably). I never pretended to be an expert on the whole Hogan debate on this subject, for crying out loud. I did say there were compelling arguments on both sides. One on the other side from those who believe Jim was a denier is from a friend of his who’d known Jim for 30 years and said Jim never denied the holocaust. Of course, if one wants to claim everyone is a denier because he may doubt reported aspects of the holocaust, then you’ve closed the debate.

No reason to get all snarky about it, though. As I said, I never knew of any of this until less than two weeks ago. I read a bunch of stuff at wiki and a few other places which shocked me re Jim’s being a holocaust denier, then I went somewhere else and read close friends of Jim’s saying the opposite. I’ll admit some of the evidence seems quite damning, but without doing my own full-scale investigation I’m not going to make my own personal, final judgment. You may be right on all counts, and if so, Jim was terribly wrong. I tried to remain neutral in my initial post because I don’t know all the facts and history behind this particular issue. And then you want to get all in my face about it.

Rather than teach or try to explain, you choose to get rude and insulting. Nice job, LawrenceA. You used my last name quite a bit in your posts. I’d have used yours as well, but since you don’t post it I can only guess what the “A” stands for.

This really should be moved to the basement.

I am not even going to comment here on how disgustingly, eye-poppingly deranged, extremely bigoted and cuckoo the above remarks of Truesdale’s are. Naturally not to the Asimov’s forumites commenting, as their responses would reveal! To them I’m the bad guy!

Continued in Part 3…

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