Tangent editor Dave Truesdale nails the lid shut on his own coffin Part 7

Continuing from Part 6…

This is Part 7 of the Dave Truesdale (managing editor at Tangent/Tangentonline and a former SFWA Bulletin Editor) related exposé on Holocaust Revisionism and associated within the science fiction genre community. See earlier parts of this series (Parts 1-6) at this blog for the proper context of this post. The introduction to this series is here.

This series continues to detail the naked Jew-hatred that is Holocaust Revisionism (apropos Truesdale) and its banality within certain segments of the science fiction genre community. Does it get any worse than this? It’s unambiguous, the dreaded Jew nation doesn’t come into it at all. Neither does the Zionist bugaboo. No wading into the swamp of so-called new anti-Semitism which Jewish genre writers largely retreat from like Napoleon’s troops fleeing out of Russia during the winter cold. Also Truesdale is a conservative, not a liberal. In other words, he makes himself a very easy target as the genre community is dominated by liberals who are very easily outraged (at least when insults – real or imagined – against their favourite grievance groups are concerned). It’s a very selective outrage in other words.

It’s easy, a free hit in other words for anybody willing to scorn, upbraid and ridicule Truesdale. You don’t have to offend anybody except anti-Semites and cretins in equal measure. Oops that is a lot of people in the genre community I admit. I digress.

Going above and beyond Truesdale’s red flag commentary on and his talk of  “newly discovered documents”‘ at the pertinent flame-war thread (now only viewable in the forthcoming Postscript Part A. See parts 1-4 of this series for the pertinent ugly details), with hindsight (ah everything is so much easier in retrospect) I should have asked Truesdale to give us a link, a reference online to these sources of his who supposedly force us to question the official accepted history of the Holocaust (you know the one the Jews keep blabbing on about and are obviously thus clearly wrong about). An article, a book, a monograph, forum, a website, essay, that kind of thing. I didn’t though and Truesdale ain’t gonna answer my queries now. Although others are free to inquire and see if Truesdale responds of course. For the record – any response he gives can only dig him deeper into the ground, but you have to recognize Holocaust Denial/Revisionism-that-pretends-it-ain’t for what it is, in order to appreciate that. I regret to say, with considerable sadness, that would be far less people in and out of the genre community than one would hope for. Duplicity (conscious or not) and bigotry go hand in hand. This seems lost on most.

All this though is extraneous – Truesdale has clearly revealed just who and what he is.

A brief digression – for the most bizarre case of apparent double-think or disingenuousness you will ever come across… really. I said I wasn’t gonna talk about Asimov’s forumite ‘Marian’ because she is a nobody here, but I am forced to somewhat to preempt some possible objections from those none-too-bright twits who appear to dominate the genre community and society in general. ‘Marian’ (very minor SF short story writer and book reviewer Marian Powell) put up a thread at the Asimov’s Forum entitled “Holocaust Deniers” http://www.asimovs.com/aspnet_forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=3854

Thread is no longer accessible of course and thus is reposted in its entirety in the forthcoming Postscript Part B. This is to preempt any charges that I have misrepresented Marian’s views. Although they may come anyway from former Asimov’s Forum zombies – no not all of you. Pertinent and pithy analysis by me of Marian’s “commentary” here is in the second postscript.

‘Marian’ was obviously motivated to initiate this thread by my comments on Hogan at the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread (see forthcoming Postscript Part A) and the resulting flame-war with her and Truesdale over Hogan’s Holocaust Denial.

Marian wrote (SAME DAY she outed herself as a Holocaust Revisionist on the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread – her comments are now only viewable in Postscript Part A) on 7/25/2010 5:36:43 PM on the ‘Holocaust Deniers’ thread:

Decades ago, I heard a man say that it wasn’t true 6 million Jews were killed; it was only 5 million. I remember it for the shock of wondering what on earth the point of saying that was. If murder is committed, the numbers don’t matter. Yet over the years, there are those who want to either deny the Holocaust ever happened or trivialize it. What are the motives? I’m starting this topic since the issue was raised on another thread and it’s an important issue.

Now it didn’t appear to occur to Asimov’s forum folk that her comment here in no way offset or put to rest any doubts one may have about her bright red flag comments defending and justifying Hogan’s Holocaust Denial/Revisionism on the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ Asimov’s Forum thread. All on the same day. Hours apart. In fact her disingenuous and odious comment “If murder is committed, the numbers don’t matter” raises a red flag and is simply obtuse. Incredibly so even.

Marian would add this comment.

7/25/2010  10:07:45 PM:

Sam said “Holocaust deniers, like those who claim, say, blacks were happy under slavery, are not to be taken as serious people.”
In the sense that these are very stupid or very troubled people, yes. But the harm they can do has to be taken seriously.

What a head-case. What unbelievable CHUTZPAH and doublethink. What a brazen contradiction, what dishonesty and duplicity! Compare the dates and times of her posts on this thread with the dates, times and content of her two odious and sinister posted comments defending Hogan on the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread (see the forthcoming Postscript Part A where this can be appreciated and only in the forthcoming postscript. Please be patient). All seemingly over the heads of Asimov’s forumites. Then there is her later comment on the ‘James Hogan Author’ thread from 8/10/2010 (just over two weeks later) with which (like Truesdale) she gave herself enough rope.. It is quoted further down.

If anybody wants to defend Marian after this comment of hers from the 8/10/2010 (and her two posts from the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread, published in the forthcoming Postscript Part A), then they are either cretins (no shortage of them around) or Holocaust Revisionists themselves. It is that simple. This is all scrutinised and dissected far more clearly (with the quoted comments that is) in the Postscript Part B. I do not want to repeat the identical points here.

I only make this minor digression here (and in Postscript Part B far more clearly and thoroughly, where I expose this surreal possibly unprecedented case) for the sake of completeness and to preempt and/or refute any misguided defense of this minor short story SF writer and reviewer from those so inclined. Marian’s two comments on the ‘Holocaust Deniers’ thread do nothing to change the facts of Marian’s odious commentary in defence of Hogan’s hardcore Holocaust Denial on two other threads at the now defunct Asimov’s Forum. Out of necessity – since the Asimov’s Forum shut-down – I post her commentary up in this regard in this blog series (once again there is a more extensive scrutiny in Postscript Part B). Base duplicity (conscious or not), brazen contradictions, doublethink, bigotry all do go together. It is delusional. It is perhaps the most bizarre case of apparent doublethink I have ever encountered.

OK back to Truesdale, who after all is the man I am exposing, since nobody else is going to do it. Nobody else can do it, given the Asimov’s Forum shut-down. And here is the coup de grâce… [This is also covered in the Postscript Part B. The same points are repeated in lesser detail. I do not scrutinise Adam Niswander’s comments in the forthcoming Postscript Part B]

Note that Truesdale is no longer commenting on this ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread, but he (and Marian) continued to raise the red flag on another thread dedicated to Hogan’s passing at the Asimov’s Forum. This thread was put up in the General Discussion section – initiated by Marian herself on date 7/25/2010 5:40:28 PM and is entitled ‘James Hogan, Author’.
www.asimovs.com/aspnet_forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=3855  [Thread no longer accessible given Asimov’s Forum shut-down. The relevant comments from this thread are also available in the forthcoming Postscript Part B]

This is the lid shut down on Dave Truesdale’s coffin (and Marian’s but we are not really bothering with her too much), and I will expand on why.

Marian comments on this thread:

8/10/2010 10:18:15 PM

Here’s a very nice tribute from Adam Niswander http://www.casfs.org/ConNotations/Volume_20/ConNotations_20-04.pdf

I’m late posting it because ConNotations only just put this issue up (ConNotations is the newsletter of the Phoenix sf organizations)

Dave Truesdale himself then comments, likewise echoing his approval of Niswander’s tribute to Hogan:

8/10/2010 10:55:13 PM

Thank you, Marian. A nice In Memory Of, especially the last couple of graphs.

Truesdale clearly perceives the odious red flag in-your-face Holocaust Revisionist newspeak commentary of Adam Niswander – writing for ConNotations the bi-monthly Science Fiction, Fantasy and convention newszine of the Central Arizona Speculative Fiction Society – as a vindication of Hogan and himself apropos their ‘take’ on the Holocaust, as does Marian of course; not a damnation which is what it actually is. And look at the dates for Marian and Truesdale’s comments – the following month *after* the flame-war at Asimov’s Forum detailed in the earlier parts of this blog series (see parts 1-4).

Here is Adam Niswander’s obscene, disgusting sympathy – that Truesdale and Marian second – for Hogan’s Holocaust Revisionism (well Denial truly).
From ConNotations Volume 20, Issue 4 August/September 2010

Quoted from ‘In Memory James P. Hogan (1941 – 2010)’:

Upon announcement of his death, the blogasphere was inundated with stories of how Jim was a Holocaust Denier – which is not true. But he was a researcher and a stickler for detail, and he resented and reacted to being told one could not question any topic – including the Holocaust. It wasn’t that he did not think the Holocaust happened, but that he thought the official accounts were not accurate. Over the last several years he apparently embraced a number of controversial topics and developed positions on them. Some of those are discussed on his website. He and his son maintained it. So I have hoisted a pint of ale (despite my gout) in remembrance of James P. Hogan. He was kind to me, an amazing individual and unique. He will be missed.

Adam Niswander
Phoenix, Arizona

Niswander’s effusive commentary is disgusting. It is endorsement of Holocaust Revisionism pure and simple. Niswander outs himself as a Holocaust Revisionist of the ‘I’m just asking questions’ type. Like Hogan himself. No mention of Hogan’s admiration for Irving, Butz, Weber and Zundel – hardcore Holocaust DENIERS. Niswander is therefore denying, like Truesdale, that Hogan is a Holocaust Denier, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Thing is it’s not as if Hogan’s explicit and in-your-face Holocaust Denial is not there for all to see on Hogan’s own blog, in Hogan’s own words and is easily accesible to anybody with a connection to the worldwideweb. It’s not as if Hogan’s Holocaust Denial is only mentioned in some obscure fanzine nobody has read or in a book that is out of print and hard to get a copy of or we are all living and working in villages in Kenya and the Amazon in which a connection to the Internet is not really feasible. How are we all mis/communicating here in the first place? Yes the wonderful Internet.

Niswander, Truesdale, Marian Powell all justify and clearly sympathise with the late James Hogan apropos his Holocaust Denial/Revisionism. All the easy to come by evidence that he is one is either dismissed at best or seconded and approved at worst. Fact is they do both. Contradictions, incoherence, deceit and bigotry all mixed together like some poisonous stew. That’s the nature of the beast. Hogan’s explicit endorsement and admiration for among the most famous hardcore lying Holocaust Deniers and Jew-haters in the West – David Irving, Arthur Butz, Mark Weber, Ernst Zundel – either means nothing at all or is clearly reasonable to the likes of Niswander, Tangent editor Dave Truesdale and Arizona short-story SF writer and book reviewer Marian Powell. Or both. Such base contradictions are par for the course  with extreme prejudice. There is an extensive literature in the psychology of prejudice on this. There is only so much ground I can cover here.

Remember that Truesdale had written this sixteen days earlier on the flame-war thread (‘James Hogan has passed away’) that got all this started..

7/25/2010 4:45:52 PMpermalink Dave_Truesdale
Posts 703 Lawrence, thanks so very much for “giving” me 24 hours to respond or else. I never heard of Irving or Butz or Weber until around last week. I have NOT defended Hogan on anything, so thanks for lying about that.

Truesdale (and Marian’s) blanket endorsement of Niswander’s Hogan tribute sixteen days after he had heard of Irving, Butz and Weber (taking Truesdale at his word), and roughly two weeks after I had shoved the evidence for their unambiguous Holocaust DENIAL in Truesdale’s maw, means that they have made their position on Holocaust Denial/Revisionism abundantly clear. Only a moronic brain-dead zombie, of which there are no shortages at the (now defunct) Asimov’s Forum and in our wider society – in which case you are beyond help and nothing I write here will change that – would dispute this point.

For the sake of a magnifying glass clarification and scrutiny, I expand on this exposé of Truesdale. I admit it may be extraneous, anyhow…

Thing is, and this is where it is undeniably sinister – Truesdale is now *at best* wilfully ignoring and dismissing the FACT that Hogan was an admirer of hardcore infamous Holocaust DENIERS Irving, Butz, Weber and Zundel for that matter. After all, Truesdale had written in response to me at the Asimov’s Forum thread ‘James Hogan has passed away’ on date 7/25/2010 4:45:52 PM the following (amidst the other disingenuous garbage already quoted above and in the earlier parts of this series):

But frankly I’m not interested in reading all the literature on Irving, Butz, Weber, and whoever else is involved. Much less trying to answer all of your unfounded accusations about me–and on a time table to boot!

So Truesdale no longer has the excuse – as he claimed initially – that he has never heard of Irving, Butz, Weber and Zundel. I told him about them on the Asimov’s Forum and in the quoted response above from the 25th July, he acknowledges his recognition of Hogan’s sources. Yet even AFTER being made cognisant of this, two weeks and two days later in fact – on August 10th – Truesdale continued to unequivocally endorse Hogan’s views on the Holocaust as legitimate and valid. So now he longer has the excuse that he had never heard of Hogan’s Holocaust Denying sources – Irving, Butz, Weber – if he ever did. He had known about them at minimum for roughly two weeks (taking Truesdale at his word) and I had quoted some of their hardcore Holocaust DENIAL on the flame-war thread, when he continued to endorse and second Hogan’s Holocaust DENIAL as a legitimate historical viewpoint.

It’s obvious and logical to conclude that Truesdale doesn’t have a problem with Hogan’s endorsement of Irving, Weber and Butz’s Holocaust DENIAL because the “skepticism” (Hogan’s word choice) of the Holocaust by the likes of Irving, Butz, Weber (and Zundel) is legitimate and reasonable in Truesdale’s eyes.

The only other logical conclusion … well what exactly? Wilful ignorance? Yet that begs a further question. Why ignore Hogan’s Holocaust Denying sources like they don’t matter, when that is the whole brouhaha?

There really are only two answers here:

1 Truesdale is a few slices short of a full loaf.

That is perhaps Truesdale does not consider Hogan’s explicit endorsement of Irving, Butz, Weber (and Zundel’s) Holocaust DENIAL as being relevant to Hogan’s views on the Holocaust!

Or else perhaps Truesdale reckons endorsing the Holocaust Denialist views of Irving, Butz, Weber and Zundel does not in and of itself make Hogan a Holocaust Denier/Revisionist!

Or Truesdale has no problem defending Hogan’s odious views on the Holocaust even though he doesn’t know what they are. This is clearly not the case since I shoved it all in Truesdale’s face at the Asimov’s Discussion Forum, and earned his insults for it as a result.

In other words, Truesdale is missing something ‘upstairs’, he is not ‘all there’.


2 It is something worse than that. Naturally if you have a moral compass – and in the SF genre community that’s a very very big if – you already know the answer. I have already given it in earlier parts to this exposé and in this chapter. Truesdale has already, inadvertently and unwittingly, given us the answer with his obscene commentary quoted extensively in this exposé (it is all there – repeated – at the TWO relevant Asimov’s Forum threads in the forthcoming Postscripts).

Truesdale’s (and Marian’s) unequivocal endorsement of Niswander’s Holocaust Revisionism of the disingenuous just-asking-questions variety as legitimate and historically valid is unambiguously sinister and says a lot about Truesdale and where he is coming from (and Marian). It is a sinister repeat of what Truesdale wrote on the flame-war ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread, where he originally outed himself for what he is, writing:

I did say there were compelling arguments on both sides. One on the other side from those who believe Jim was a denier is from a friend of his who’d known Jim for 30 years and said Jim never denied the holocaust. Of course, if one wants to claim everyone is a denier because he may doubt reported aspects of the holocaust, then you’ve closed the debate.


So I scratched around a little bit and found what seemed to be solid evidence that he did indeed say such things. And I also found solid evidence that he did not believe the holocaust never took place, but that he believed that some of the way the history was written about the holocaust was wrong. It was this he “denied.” He denied the public histories as they were written. A crucial difference.

…I don’t want to get into a political discussion about this, especially not here. I only mention the above as a cautionary exercise, one which is intended to make clear that you can’t always take for literal truth everything you read, or hear second hand. Keep an open mind.

One wonders what old Isaac Asimov would have made of it all!

Truesdale (and plenty others in the genre community it appears) thinks that there is a legitimate “debate” about the Holocaust. There isn’t, it is beyond the pale. Like debating the morality of pedophilia or slavery. Beyond the pale. There is nothing to debate. It is Holocaust Revisionism in principle to think there is something to “debate”. Scarily not too many people out there seem to get that, which bodes very ill in these very scary times. It’s actually chilling, very scary, shocking, but not surprising. It is unfortunately all too banal. The banality of bigotry, and extreme bigotry at that.

Truesdale’s endorsement and parroting the ‘just asking questions’ claptrap re the history on the Holocaust tells those of us compos mentis and with some moral bearings, all we need to know. This is the language of Holocaust Denial/Revisionism, the duplicitous snake-like language employed to make Holocaust Denial/Revisionism more palatable and respectable. So it comes as no surprise that Truesdale (by expressing unambiguously complete approval of the Niswander tribute to Hogan) continued to defend Hogan apropos his views on the Holocaust *inspite of* Truesdale being fully aware of Hogan’s glowing endorsement of David Irving, Arthur Butz and Mark Weber as truth-tellers on the Holocaust (a minimum of roughly two weeks after the flame-war took place).

Forthcoming is Part 8 – Truesdale and gang Summing Up

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