This is the second part of a two part postscript to a series entitled ‘Asimov’s Forum & Der Stürmer – Can You Tell the Difference? On the banality of Holocaust Revisionism’ alternatively titled ‘Alice in Wonderland as interpreted by David Duke and Louis Farrakhan’. And this second postscript really shows why it is so entitled (not really necessary to have read and digested the pertinent parts of the first postscript and/or preceding chapters beforehand but it helps).
It is bizarre and surreal beyond my ability to elucidate – this second postscript that is. The sane reader may have problems even believing it, you may think you have misunderstood something, that it can’t be that crazy (what is detailed below). Yet it really is that stark raving.. Those seriously interested in psychology and the bizarre doublethink twists associated with extreme prejudice – you have got to check this out.
The introduction to this blog series (12 parts if one includes the introduction as well and postscripts) has all the clickable links to the series chapters, with descriptions and thus a brief explanation and background to what this is all about. The first Postscript Part A is necessary background for this second Postscript Part B.
The posting of this thread commentary here in this second postscript is necessary for the sake of completeness and to preempt any idiotic ‘gotcha’ commentary (which may come anyway, idiots being idiots) by any defenders of certain characters justifying Holocaust Revisionism on the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread in July 2010 from the old Asimov’s Forum (see Postscript Part A).
The posted comments are not put up in the original Asimov’s Forum format (as is the case with Postscript Part A), but are entirely unedited and unchanged. I have put my own blog commentary amongst the thread commentary itself in red text and under my blog name ‘red wolf’ so as to avoid confusion with the thread commentary itself, as in Postscript Part A. My own commentary between the different threads remains in black text.
Pertinent commentary from the ‘James Hogan Author’ thread is pasted below, since the original thread now returns a ‘500 Internal Server Error’. www.asimovs.com/aspnet_forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=3855 This commentary is covered in part 7 of this blog series in a more detailed analysis and scrutiny. I do not bother with everybody else’s comments.
‘James Hogan Author’ thread initiated by ‘Marian’ on 7/25/2010:
7/25/2010 5:40:28 PMpermalink
Marian
Posts 3030 James Hogan has died. http://www.locusmag.com/News/2010/07/james-hogan-1941-2010/
I’m at a disadvantage here in that I never read anything by him. Who here has read some of his works? How was he as an author?
I’ll start by quoting an exchange by Dave Truesdale and John Rogers from another thread:
Dave_Truesdale wrote: (in response to a question from John Rogers) “Were the guy’s science fiction books any good?”
Definitely Yes, John. I thoroughly enjoyed THE MULTIPLEX MAN, ENDGAME ENIGMA, and INHERIT THE STARS. Jim could tell a whopping good tale within a clear-cut SF framework. He wrote many other well received novels, too. He has many fans.John Rogers responded:
Thanks. Maybe I’ll try one. The Multiplex Man sounds like the story of one of those hapless dudes who got lost looking for a men’s room at an AMC 24/IMAX Experience!/3D enabled mega-theater.Dave_Truesdale
“The Multiplex Man sounds like the story of one of those hapless dudes who got lost looking for a men’s room at an AMC 24/IMAX Experience!/3D enabled mega-theater.”Hah. No doubt. Actually, it begins with a guy who wakes up and finds himself dead. If that ain’t a great opening hook I don’t know what is.
edited by Marian on 7/25/2010
[Here below are the damning comments from ‘Marian’ (minor SF short story writer and book reviewer in Arizona Marian Powell) and Dave Truesdale (managing editor at Tangentonline a critical SF review e-zine), that settles where they stand on the Holocaust ‘debate’ – red wolf]
8/10/2010 10:18:15 PMpermalink
Marian
Posts 3030 Here’s a very nice tribute from Adam Niswander http://www.casfs.org/ConNotations/Volume_20/ConNotations_20-04.pdfI’m late posting it because ConNotations only just put this issue up (ConNotations is the newsletter of the Phoenix sf organizations)
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“Know the truth and the truth shall make you odd.”8/10/2010 10:55:13 PMpermalink Dave_Truesdale Posts 667 Thank you, Marian. A nice In Memory Of, especially the last couple of graphs.
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“When any category of science fiction has become dull and repetitive, there is always a brilliant story waiting to be written by giving up the assumptions that made the story easy to write.” — Damon Knight
If anybody wants to pretend that Truesdale and Powell are not Holocaust Revisionists themselves after the above comments of theirs quoted in their entirety above – with their important dates, that is two weeks after the Asimov’s Forum ‘James Hogan has passed away’ flame-war – they are either cretins or duplicitous, doublethink Holocaust Revisionists themselves. There is no third alternative in this context. Not even middling anti-Semitism, that is those guilty of anti-Semitism but who are not Holocaust Revisionists themselves.
The ‘Holocaust Deniers’ thread pasted below and initiated by ‘Marian’ (ie Marian Powell) at the Asimov’s Forum on 7/25/2010 is simply UNBELIEVABLE/SURREAL in light of Marian Powell outing herself as a Holocaust Revisionist – along with Truesdale – that is in the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ flame-war thread THREE AND A HALF HOURS BEFORE this thread was initiated by her, the same day! – 25th July 2010. See her odious post dated 2:03:42 PM on the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread (in Postscript Part A) and her second post as well in that self-same thread dated 5:22:58 PM on the same day.
Remember in this second post from the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread, Marian would remark incoherently and in brazen contradiction, a MERE FOURTEEN MINUTES BEFORE INITIATING the ‘Holocaust Deniers’ thread:
“I suggest we close this thread. I’ll start two new ones: one on Hogan the author and one on The Holocaust and its deniers.
Lawrence A, the subject of those who deny or revise the Holocaust is so serious, as I said, that it deserves serious discussion. You have not said one serious word here on this thread. You’re using the topic for your own angry purpose whatever it is. And as a result you are guilty of the very thing you say you’re against, you’re trivializing the Holocaust by making the topic a personal dumping ground.”
How do you respond to the above??!! It’s beyond nuts. To call it incoherent downplays the meaning of the very word. Just who is trivialising the Holocaust??!! Hogan denied the Holocaust Marian!! And you defended him in your earlier post, posted three hours and twenty minutes before the one quoted above! When I detailed Hogan’s Holocaust Denial you write in response to me “You have not said one serious word here on this thread”!! and “You’re using this topic for your own angry purpose whatever it is”!! Uh the “angry purpose” is exposing Holocaust DENIAL Marian! Marian would go on to endorse the odious Holocaust Revisionist newspeak of Adam Niswander in his tribute to SF author James P Hogan in ConNotations just over two weeks later (see above and Part 7 of this series as well) digging her figurative grave in the process, reaffirming her true colours along with Truesdale!
Brazen contradictions, bizarro double-think, duplicity (usually unconscious and almost certainly in this case), delusions and extreme prejudice all do go together. There is an extensive literature on this in the psychology/sociology of prejudice. Still it takes some doing to top this surreal WTF?! thread initiated by ‘Marian’ and pasted in its entirety below.
Marian wrote the following pasted below, THREE AND A HALF HOURS (and even fourteen minutes – bizarro double-think second post) AFTER OUTING herself – remember – as a Holocaust Revisionist (this is clear as day now after her unambiguous endorsement of the odious A Niswander tribute to Hogan made roughly two weeks later and quoted above) on the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread at the self-same Asimov’s Forum!! Calling all students of psychology..
‘Holocaust Deniers’ thread from the Asimov’s Forum initiated by ‘Marian’ dated 7/25/2010. Original URL now returns a ‘500 Internal Server Error’ http://www.asimovs.com/aspnet_forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=3854
7/25/2010 5:36:43 PMpermalink
Marian
Posts 3628 Decades ago, I heard a man say that it wasn’t true 6 million Jews were killed; it was only 5 million. I remember it for the shock of wondering what on earth the point of saying that was. If murder is committed, the numbers don’t matter. Yet over the years, there are those who want to either deny the Holocaust ever happened or trivialize it. What are the motives? I’m starting this topic since the issue was raised on another thread and it’s an important issue.—
“Know the truth and the truth shall make you odd.”
[The commentators at this thread didn’t appear to recognise the fact that Marian outed herself as a nutty Holocaust Revisionist hours earlier, and in the process exhibited bizarro mental gymnastics/doublethink to justify her Holocaust Revisionism out of one side of her mouth and condemn it out of the other, simultaneously. Unconscious guilt? She appears to have fooled most everybody at the Asimov’s Forum, including herself. To be fair to Asimov’s forumites commenting, I don’t think they all were paying attention and/or didn’t read all the pertinent comments at the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread. So I mean no criticism of the other Asimov’s forumites whatsoever in this regard. I know I never bothered reading properly everything on every thread at the old forum, for what? And who has the time? Unless you really have no life.. Nevertheless all this played out on the same day – three and a half hours and fourteen minutes before! respectively – that Marian showed up her odious colours on the Holocaust ‘debate’ at the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread (see Postscript Part A). Her later comment just over two weeks later commending Niswander’s tribute to Hogan, from the ‘James Hogan Author’ thread above would definitely reconfirm her Holocaust Revisionism. Sheeeeesh – red wolf]
7/25/2010 6:08:02 PM
Sam Wilson
Posts 1161
Marian, there’s a great quote which says, “Sometimes the trick to figuring something out is knowing when you’ve already figured it out.”Holocaust deniers, like those who claim, say, blacks were happy under slavery, are not to be taken as serious people.
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If the rule that you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?7/25/2010 6:23:51 PMpermalink
Thomas R
Posts 3922 I think pretty often, maybe just generally, the motive is to say that Jews are liars who are playing for sympathy to advance their own cause. (Global domination, Zionism, or whatever paranoid Anti-Semites imagine) So even switching it to five million, or saying the Jews were worked to death rather than gassed, fits that. I’d say that fits for other forms of genocide revisionism too. Like I think at least some Turks feel likewise about the Armenians. Although with the Turks many of them feel the Armenians are “lying” because they are nationalist who refuse to believe Turks would do that. That’s another element. A person in Europe might choose to be revisionist based in “We Europeans are civilized we wouldn’t have done that sort-of thing.” Still I think even then the idea that “the victims are liars” would be there.Although I’ve seen a smaller group of “Holocaust Revisionists” who are basically in it because they’re cranks or crackpots. They see history as a conspiracy or they just refuse to accept standard history on principle. So they may also believe we never landed on the Moon or that AIDS was created by the CIA or any number of things. Some in this genre are literally insane.
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7/25/2010 7:51:04 PM
Guest
From what I see, most Holocaust deniers are practitioners of Nazi occultism who can’t come to terms with the fact that six million wasn’t enough to give them the result they were gunning for. No Elder Demon, no Naz, the antithesis of Cthulhu, descended from the beyond and devoured all who weren’t blonde-haired, blue-eyed sycophants. They can’t accept that the requested number of sacrifices didn’t work. So they deny they ever happened. What they don’t deny, they’ll claim was done in an improper manner. By doing so, they don’t have to ponder what a macabre sham their supposed God, Naz, is. Ultimately, though, Holocaust deniers are denying more than the Holocaust. They’re denying the first rule that all who successfully delve into the beyond know by heart: never ever trust a god with a name you can pronounce. Ever.
edited by The Cthulhu Kid on 7/25/20107/25/2010 9:13:11 PM
Kevin C.
Posts 1761 I can’t help but to think of former slaves my father and grandfather knew, or one of my uncles who saw a liberated concentration camp, or one of my wife’s uncles who not only saw one but took photos. Ours may well be the last generation that these things are more than musty words written on the dry pages of history books.I’m not optimistic. The mind recoils from the truly horrendous. It is perhaps easier to believe that all slaves were happy with their lot than the horror of treating another human as property; easier to delude oneself that millions were not systematically put to death for no other reason than their race. Within our lifetime we have seen those who discount the testimony of Nazi records, of men and women who escaped the ovens by the skin of their teeth, of Allied troops that found camps full of living skeletons.
What, pray tell, will future historians say? If prior history is our guide, they will dismiss that millions died. Likely some will earn their doctorates by claiming it never happened at all. Even if they remember, most others won’t.
Implausible? Quick: What image does the name “Antwerp” conjure? Most likely it won’t be the Spanish Fury of the Eighty Years War. And less than half a millennia has passed since blood soaked the cobblestones.
The day will come when only the Jews remember. Perhaps sooner than we think.
edited by Kevin C. on 7/25/20107/25/2010 9:16:26 PMpermalink
Jeffhaas
Posts 3443 I’m less optimistic than you, Kevin. With the world’s population continuing to increase and our resources continuing to diminish, I think we’re going to see genocides in our lifetime that will make the holocaust pale in comparison.“A desk is a dangerous place from which to watch the world.”
7/25/2010 9:29:04 PMpermalink Captain Mitty
Posts 452 Tonight I heard a man on TV say something interesting about this.He said that, during the war crimes trials of all the Nazis, they all pleaded that they were following orders, or weren’t involved that much or whatever. What NONE of them pleaded was that it never happened.
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Nisi infractus, noli reficere.7/25/2010 10:07:45 PMpermalink
Marian
Posts 3628 Sam said “Holocaust deniers, like those who claim, say, blacks were happy under slavery, are not to be taken as serious people.”
In the sense that these are very stupid or very troubled people, yes. But the harm they can do has to be taken seriously.“Know the truth and the truth shall make you odd.”
[The uh issues of Marian’s are incredible here, leaves one near speechless. That is in light of her outing herself as a Holocaust Revisionist at this self-same Asimov’s Forum THE SAME DAY!! I have possibly never come across – EVER – such brazen chutzpah, delusion, unconscionable doublethink or all three combined as with Marian Powell here. What a head-case – red wolf.]
7/25/2010 10:48:18 PMpermalink
Dr. Sardonicus
Posts 711 The first “holocaust denial” book I ever heard of was The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, author’s surname Butz. He denied, for starters, that the Jews were specifically targeted for death. I don’t know what his motives were. Of course, the intent to exterminate the Jews was laid out in Mein Kampf. The means by which they were targeted are described in IBM and the Holocaust.Sad to say, Thomas Watson, the founder of IBM, was not the only prominent American to be awarded the German Order of the Eagle by the Third Reich (the highest honor they could award non-Germans). Watson returned his medal in 1940; the other recipients never did. Henry Ford’s publication of anti-Jewish screeds, including a pack of lies known as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in his Dearborn Independent, earned him the same honor, as well as a favorable mention in Mein Kampf. I have heard it said that, when a reporter in Berlin in 1932 went to interview Adolph Hitler, who was then the head of an up-and-coming new political party, he saw many copies of the Dearborn Independent, both in English and translated into German, on tables, and a portrait of Henry Ford adorning the wall.
Charles Lindberg, and James Mooney of GM’s Opel division, also received the award.
My “default assumption” about Holocaust deniers is, they want to make Nazi ideology seem acceptable, in order to pave the way for the final, “final solution.”
[Sigh yes the same Arthur Butz James P Hogan himself praised, and then Marian and Truesdale would continue to stand by Hogan’s Holocaust Denial/Revisionism as reasonable – see ‘James Hogan Author’ thread – long after I presented the evidence that Hogan admired the likes of Butz (and Mark Weber and David Irving) at the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry – red wolf]
7/25/2010 11:32:31 PMpermalink
madoc
Posts 699 Dr. S. & all,Hey, up through the 1930’s Hitler’s Nazi regime was the cat’s meow! I mean, the Reich rocked! FULL employment! An economy growing so fast it was exploding! A state which recognized those capitalist bastards for what they were BUT it was also a state that recognized those Bolshevik bastards for what they were to! Plus, it was a state and a political philosophy which put those filthy Jews in their place! What was not to like! Back then, everyone despised Jews. Everyone.
The intelligentsia of the modern world (i.e. the rest of Europe and then the US (perhaps Canada and Australia might have counted if those particular Canadians and Australians happened to be intelligentsia who were intelligent enough to be intelligentsia living in the US or Europe)) also admired the Nazis for having the foresight to make the science of eugenics a matter of national state policy!
This, folks, was progress! This was modernity! This was a state which worked!
So it was only fitting that notables elsewhere in the world receive their due for their thinking being in line with all those modern dudes of the hip and oh-so-cool Third Reich.
Mind you, that minor disagreement which started in September of ’39 did rather put a damper on all things Nazi…
Madoc
7/25/2010 11:40:51 PMpermalink
T Radigan
Posts 1085 There’s another danger too. It seems that when the Holocaust is brought up, it’s always about the six million Jews-and not the millions of others who died. Hardly even mentioned is the fact that the first people to be exterminated were not the Jews, but those who were deemed physically and mentally defective, followed by political prisoners. Gypsies and Polish people also died by the millions, as well as other ethnic groups judged inferior by Nazi standards. Yes, Jews were persecuted from the beginning, but it was not until 1942 that the decision was made to systematically exerminate them, rather than merely isolate them from the rest of society in concentration camps. This is in fact the origin of the term “Final Solution”.Yes, I have heard of the “First they came for the Jews” quote attributed to Reverend Martin Niemoller. I admit I have the suspicion that this quote is spurious, for the sad truth is that Niemoller was in fact an early Nazi supporter, even if he wasn’t one later and was persecuted for it.
edited by T Radigan on 7/25/20107/25/2010 11:52:09 PMpermalink
T Radigan
Posts 1085 More on Niemoller:http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/niem.htm
7/26/2010 3:36:33 AM
Thomas R
Posts 3922 I do wish they’d do more on the Gypsies and Jehovah’s Witnesses killed by the Nazis. Say what you will about JWs, and I’m not necessarily pro-JW, but it’s intriguing that they were a group that could have escaped yet chose not to. What I mean is many of the JWs were perfectly “Aryan” people who would have lived if they’d agreed to serve the Nazi state. The JWs don’t believe in “the kingdom of this world” though, not Nazi or Ally either granted, so refused and like 90% of them or something died. (Although their apparently blaming, at least in part, the hostility they faced from Nazis on “The Jesuits”, and told the Nazis they shared hostility to “commercial Jews of the British-American empire” is somewhat less encouraging)Jehovah’s Witnesses in Nazi Germany
Persecution and Resistance of Jehovah’s Witnesses—
7/26/2010 7:04:51 AMpermalink
Kevin C. Posts 1761 T Radigan wrote:“There’s another danger too. It seems that when the Holocaust is brought up, it’s always about the six million Jews-and not the millions of others who died. Hardly even mentioned is the fact that the first people to be exterminated were not the Jews, but those who were deemed physically and mentally defective, followed by political prisoners. Gypsies and Polish people also died by the millions, as well as other ethnic groups judged inferior by Nazi standards. Yes, Jews were persecuted from the beginning, but it was not until 1942 that the decision was made to systematically exerminate them, rather than merely isolate them from the rest of society in concentration camps. This is in fact the origin of the term “Final Solution”.
Five to eleven million in addition to six million Jews, including nearly three million Soviet POWs starved by the Nazis, with another million killed outright.* We remember the Jews because over sixty percent of all Jews in Germany and occupied territories died as part of the Final Solution, with ninety percent in Poland alone.
*The Soviets turned around and arrested survivors of the POW camps as collaborators with the Nazis, and sent thousands to the Gulags. There’s even less mention of that.
7/26/2010 7:22:37 AMpermalink
T Radigan
Posts 1085 Your number is very probably an underestimate, as three million non-Jewish Poles alone also died. Poland in fact was abolished and called “General Government”; Poland didn’t even have a Quisling governor and was govered by Germans. Why do we remember Jews and nobody else? Try criticizing Israel for any reason whatsoever, and there’s your answer.7/26/2010 2:08:05 PMpermalink
Dr. Sardonicus
Posts 711 T Radigan wrote:
“Hardly even mentioned is the fact that the first people to be exterminated were not the Jews, but those who were deemed physically and mentally defective, followed by political prisoners.”Perhaps the fact that the Nazis’ eugenics laws that served as a basis for the involuntary sterilization, and then extermination, of “defectives” were modeled after eugenics laws already enacted in the United States, is part of the reason for the reluctance to mention them.
It is also possible that post-WWII history focuses more on Hitler’s persecution of the Jews than of other groups, simply because Hitler and his regime did so. Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany’s problems, if not all the ills of the world, in Mein Kampf.
The German industrialists backed the Nazi party on its road to power, because Hitler promised to rein in the trade unionists. And he did — by putting them in concentration camps. Of course, he then compelled the industrialists to serve the Reich.
I have read that Hitler, when asked why he thought the world would simply stand idly by while he systematically exterminated millions of people, asked “Who remembers the Armenians?” The Ottoman Turks had systematically killed millions of Armenians during WWI, and Hitler knew this, and that nobody was saying much about it. To this day, the modern Turkish state, which after WWI supplanted the Ottoman regime, still officially denies that Turkey committed genocide against the Armenians, and officially takes umbrage at any other nation’s official pronouncements that it did.
Just as Japan still denies its WWII atrocities. God only knows how many civilians they slaughtered during their military occupation of Korea, Manchuria, etc. I heard in one account of Doolittle’s raid on Tokyo, that the Japanese killed 750,000 civilians just in mass reprisals against the Chinese for having helped the raiders elude capture after their planes ran out of gas and came down in China.
I knew one guy who said he approved so heartily of Hitler’s extermination of homosexuals, he simply didn’t care about any other groups of people he’d had killed.
[Here Dr. Sardonicus quotes the odious Radigan again below, who let us not forget got all riled up/snarky with me for speaking out against Holocaust Revisionism on the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ thread. There is a consistent pattern here – red wolf]
“Yes, Jews were persecuted from the beginning, but it was not until 1942 that the decision was made to systematically exerminate them, rather than merely isolate them from the rest of society in concentration camps.”
The Jews were never “merely isolated from the rest of the population.” Starting at least as early as the 1935 Nuremberg Laws, the Jews were systematically stripped of their citizenship, the right to marry non-Jews, right to associate with non-Jews (hence to a whole host of livelihoods), the right to be present in any number of public places, their property, their financial assets, etc. The “final solution” was merely the logical conclusion of this process; there wasn’t anything left to do with the Jews except kill them; and the disposal of so many bodies required that the process be systematized.
7/27/2010 5:51:49 AMpermalink
Thomas R
Posts 3922 Dr. Sardonicus wrote:“It is also possible that post-WWII history focuses more on Hitler’s persecution of the Jews than of other groups, simply because Hitler and his regime did so. Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany’s problems, if not all the ills of the world, in Mein Kampf.”
That’s definitely a big factor or the main factor. They were genocidal to other groups, but their obsession on Jewish conspiracies and killing Jews was a/the prime focus. So it makes sense the focus is more on the Jewish situation and the term “Holocaust” is sometimes seen as just relating to the Jewish experience under Nazis as it relates to the Jewish term “Shoah” and other groups sometimes use other terms. (Gypsies/Romany recently use “Porajmos” or “The Devouring.”)
Still even though Jews were their main focus they did have other interests and it times it does feel like those get relatively little interest even compared to their significance to Nazi rule. However there might be some explanations for that. The Gypsies/Romany were largely persecuted in Eastern Europe after the Nazis, to this day in some cases, and that’s where many of them lived. So there was likely not that much interest in hearing what they had to say. In addition the Gypsies/Romany traditionally tended to see themselves, at least somewhat or sometimes, as “a people apart” who did not necessarily feel it appropriate to talk about community issues to outsiders. The Communists, also major victims, are not as sympathetic to many people particularly during the Cold War. Jehovah’s Witnesses are annoying to people. The Slavs they wanted to enslave more than annihilate, although they did kill many of them for “breeding space” or because they rejected the regime. There does seem to be an increasing interest in the homosexual victims of the Nazis though.
On the mentally ill and disabled the Christians of Nazi Germany stopped that program, even if they would not stop things against Jews, so that might lower interest. Also in the post-Christian world the idea that people with “low quality of life” might be “life unworthy of life” seems to be gaining a bit of sympathy. Even among the Allies the idea of mandatory sterilization of “defectives and imbeciles” was relatively popular. Now the idea that people must have the right to exterminate “life unworthy of life” in-utero is often quite a cherished one. To the point of declaring those who do it heroes.
edited by Thomas R on 7/27/2010
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End of thread.
Like I write at the top, as an intro into this bizarro thread – simply unbelievable that a Holocaust Revisionist Marian starts a thread on ‘Holocaust Deniers’ the same day she outs herself as a Holocaust Revisionist at the same forum, and gets away with it! Or maybe it’s all too shockingly believable. Dr Sardonicus, Kevin C, Jeffhaas, Sam Wilson, madoc, Guest/The Cthulhu Kid (yeah B I know it’s you), Capt Mitty and even Thomas R are exempt from any and all criticisms in this regard. Dr Sardonicus’s points are especially appreciated. I just post up all their comments here unedited and out of necessity in light of the Asimov’s Forum shut-down (otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered at all); to preempt the possibility that some people may bray ‘but Marian started a thread at Asimov’s Forum condemning Holocaust Denial’ and accuse me of libel.
Although given the rampant stupidity and bigotry of many in the genre community, that may still happen anyway. It should be apparent to anybody with a moral compass and some intelligence that for sheer brazen bigotry, delusion, snake-like duplicity, contradictions, doublethink and nuttiness, there was no place on the ‘mainstream’ web that could surpass the Asimov’s Discussion Forum. And Asimov’s Forum admin does not come off well at all. Hardly. Admin was very much part of the problem (for what I am getting at see Part 5 and Part 9 of this series). Yeah just a few crazy apples, but that’s all it takes and an admin that has behaved (how to put it as politely as possible) very poorly and worse..
Analog Forum ‘James P. Hogan Interview’ thread initiated by Dave Truesdale on 7/18/2010.
Analog Forum is also defunct, so this thread is no longer accessible. It returns a ‘500 Internal Server Error’. http://www.analogsf.com/aspnet_forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=1084
7/18/2010 10:07:45 PM
Dave Truesdale
Posts 117 Until this morning I had totally forgotten an interview I did with Jim Hogan back in May of 1993. It ran originally in Tangent No. 1, July/August 1993. I transcribed the whole darn thing from print today, got it all worked up and presentable, and just posted it at Tangent Online.http://www.tangentonline.com/interviews-columnsmenu-166/1380-classic-james-p-hogan-interview
I remember the interview well, for Jim and I polished off nearly an entire bottle of his Bushmills Black Bush Irish Whiskey over several hours–and while I was trying to interview him. It’s lucky anything came out coherently.
Anyway, since Jim was a hard SF writer and published in Analog, I thought some of you might like to read what he said 17 years ago. We talked a LOT of politics, as you might well imagine, but there’s a bunch of other interesting stuff in there as well. Some of his views on global warming and the environmental movement (Greenpeace) don’t seem all that outre to some of us these days, and are eerily prescient.
Anyway, despite some of his views (especially his being a holocaust denier, if true; a view I can’t really believe he believed), I thought he was a nice guy. Anybody who gets me drunk on fancy stuff like Bushmills Black Bush Irish Whiskey is A-OK in my book.
[I would later comment on this thread, in two posts, repeating the evidence for Hogan’s Holocaust Denial from Hogan’s own blog, after the ‘James Hogan has passed away’ flame-war at the Asimov’s Forum had had its run – the same evidence I also presented on that self-same Asimov’s Forum thread. I do not paste up these comments of mine here again, at this point it really is extraneous. (although I did save the whole thread)
Truesdale was cognisant of my commentary here as well – the repeated evidence for Hogan’s Holocaust DENIAL – for he would write this below AFTER my posts went up. (in response to a comment from Dr Sardonicus on booze) – red wolf]:
8/31/2010 11:30:23 PMpermalink
Dave Truesdale
Posts 117 Depends on your tolerance level, and if you’re drinking on an empty stomach or not. The tape recorder helped ye olde memory a lot.
And that as they say is that! This is the end of this series – red wolf.
Season of the Red Wolf 